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| Markco of JMTC and Every Copper Counts |
Apologies
First off, I would like to apologize to any of my loyal readers that I led astray by recommending the JMTC WoW Coaching Program as a viable source to make money. While it still could be a viable revenue stream, the amount of time invested for each coaching session simply does not come anywhere close to the hourly rates that most people are charging. I don't want to waste 2 hours researching and 1 or more hours teaching a student for a measly $10. My rates for a coaching session would have to have been raised to $40 per session for it even to be worth my while to spend the amount of time I would want to dedicate to fully coach someone. And it is hard enough to get daily posts, podcasts, guest casts and guest posts all worked into a real life full time employment schedule already. For these reasons alone I submitted to remove myself from the WoW Coaching Program over at JMTC.
The Removal As A JMTC Coach
Per the instructions on the coaching site at Just My Two Copper, I contacted Markco and requested my removal from the JMTC WoW Coaching Program via email. The 60 Day Guarantee is clearly shown as well as the stated that "[He] will refund the purchase in full." If you listen to the audio commentary he also states "I will reimburse you for all the money you spent."
So I contacted Markco on April 4th and explained that I would like to be removed from the JMTC WoW Coaching Program. So Markco responds back with "Cancellation Request Sent", which is the only thing he ever sent me about cancelling. So I assumed that he actually sent the request in.
The Continued Charges
You can imagine my suprise when on the 4th of this month I was charged again for Markco's JMTC WoW Coaching Program again. I immediately sent him an email asking him to remedy the situation, unsub me like he said he already did and refund my monies. Of course all I got back was complete bullshit.
This liar never sent me anything other than what you saw above, "Cancelation request sent." Further more, he contradicts himself within the email reply saying that I have to request the cancellation myself and he can't do it for me. Then in the same email he says that he sent the request last month and can try to send it again to get it turned off. What? Which is it Captain Outsource? Either you can do it or you can't. Why are you telling me you sent the request, now I need to do it myself (which never was mentioned before), or you can do it for me again? Huh?!?! Just refund my money you crook.
What a damn liar! The clickbank reps I spoked to on their Live Chat Support both confirmed HE NEVER EVEN SENT MY CANCEL REQUEST AT ALL! The support rep also confirmed the other things he was lieing about. A vendor, such as Markco, IS able to request a refund, yet he keeps telling me he can't and I had to do it on my own. But he also says he already submitted the request. Huh? Talking out both sides of your mouth?
Markco also tells me that I am the only one that had any issues being unsubscribed and with continued charges. More lies! After I blew the whistle on this crook via Twitter, I had 4 more ex-coaches tell me they either were currently cancelled and still being billed or had went thru the same issues before they finally got all of his charges to stop. If you say contact me for a cancellation and refund, then you should follow through and not put your buyers through all of these hoops just to get a refund that you promised. And allowing the charges to continue after you know people have requested cancellations is just plain wrong. That's stealing, with the intent of hoping they don't notice the $10 rebilled monthly. What's worse is this crook had taken my coaching ad down long before the time I had legitemately paid for, which I got refunded back by the helpful chat support agents at Clickbank.com. (Shout out to Jutta and Mirabel!)
From The Mouth Of Deceit
So let's look at the list of lies from Markco:
- LIE #1 Marko says "Cancellation request sent." - CSR confirmed he never sent anything.
- LIE #2 Marko says he informed me how to cancel it myself in original email - Wrong! All you sent was a reply that you took care of it, but really never did anything at all.
- LIE #3 Markco tells me I'm the only one with an issue - Well twitter and email confirmed at least 4 other cases. He release this SMOKESCREEN post on JMTC about urgent issued with the WoW Coaching Program. When backed into a corner and called out for a scandal, this post is just to cover his ass after he's already been caught. Just more lies from Markco the Snake.
- Lie #4 Tells me he can't issue a cancellation or a refund - He already contradicted himself in email replies and the clickbank CSR confirmed vendors can send in both request. He just never did either.
Even after the release of his smokescreen post that is out to cover his ass after I blew the whistle on his scandal, he still hasn't update the actually coaching site with the quick and easy ways to unsubscribe and request refunds for yourself. Why? He proably hopes that you too will be recharged each month and then not notice until you are out of the 60 day guaranteed refund time period. You can't get a refund after 60 days have passed for any rebilling payments per the clickbank rep.
Luckily I spilled the beans on this scandal on twitter and have started the process for other ex-coaches to double check their statements and get the refunds that are properly owed to them. Some people complain that I can be a bit harsh, but I am looking out for the greater good of my readers as a whole. I even get referral credits monthly for some of these people getting billed and I don't mind losing that income completely as apparently it isn't even a legit charge and others are being ripped off just like Markco was trying to rip me off.
Is this really the kind of snake that you want getting your money?
HOW TO: Get Your Refund From Clickbank
Since Markco doesn't want to make it easy for you. Here is a step by step guide to unsubscribing, stopping payments, and requesting refunds.
- If you paid with paypal make sure to go and stop the subscription thru them.
- If you used a credit card, contact them to block payment.
- Cancel the subscription with clickbank. Here's the Cancel Link. Ask for live chat support if needed.
- Open a dispute via paypal if you used paypal to purchase.
- Then file for a refund with clickbank stating you were charged after you notified him to cancel service.
- Send a formal complaint to: abuse@clickbank.com. Detailing how he charged you for the months after you requested cancellation. If you don't report him, he will continue taking advatage of people.
- File for a full refund if you originally cancelled within his 60 day moneyback guarantee. All you need for a full refund is an email to forward showing your request for cancellation and refund that is dated 60 days or less from your sign up date.
- If you have continued problems or you also believe this was more than just a mistake. Then contact the Better Business Bureau of Eastern PA (Markco is from Philly) and report the issue regarding Chris Antoni / JMTC / 20k Leveling and his illegal activity of continuing to charge unsubscribed subscribers. Here is the direct link to start a claim with the Eastern PA BBB.
This post is written truly for the best interests of my excellent readers as well as any other World of Warcraft players that may also have been duped by Markco the Snake and his lies. Join his JMTC WoW Coaching Program at your own risk. At least now you can reference this post, if you go to unsub from the coaching program.
Hope this helps anyone out there who looked over the questionable rebilling charges. I already have helped some ex-coaches via twitter and email. I hope to get the word out to all of those effected.
So please spread the word.
******************
UPDATE: After getting caught he has released an altered transcript of my email dealings back and forth with him. Let it be know that these emails occured over the course of 1 day YESTERDAY and he has removed all of the dates from them to help hide the fact that the original email on 4/4 regarding cancellation said nothing of this new way that we are supposed to cancel.
His site said contact him and that's what I did. He lied and said he cancelled. He never did. Now he is trying to say he told me how to do it the whole time. These are just plain outright lies. He told me how to cancel yesterday and that's the first time. He left the dates out for a reason. It's just more smoke and mirrors for his lemmings to save his image. Tell one lie and it leads to another - even a kindergartner knows that.
******************
UPDATE: After getting caught he has released an altered transcript of my email dealings back and forth with him. Let it be know that these emails occured over the course of 1 day YESTERDAY and he has removed all of the dates from them to help hide the fact that the original email on 4/4 regarding cancellation said nothing of this new way that we are supposed to cancel.
His site said contact him and that's what I did. He lied and said he cancelled. He never did. Now he is trying to say he told me how to do it the whole time. These are just plain outright lies. He told me how to cancel yesterday and that's the first time. He left the dates out for a reason. It's just more smoke and mirrors for his lemmings to save his image. Tell one lie and it leads to another - even a kindergartner knows that.
Ego whore finally got caught for his scams!!! Good job
ReplyDeleteThis proof of his incompetence for sure, it would seem to be win win for him to just do nothing and let the money come in monthly and if something Is ever brought up he can play stupid. I have never been fond of his giant ego. He started something good and then shit on it. No matter what he does he will have his sheep defend him because they feel they need to leech of JMTC to succeed instead of doing it on there own. He says JMTC is it's own resource but he uses that community to form others about different things and then calls himself a community builder if you build one and they follow you around you are a community re user right?
ReplyDeleteGlad you had the balls to speak up and not let this worm piss on you!!
For what reason did he scam you?
ReplyDeleteU should really fight this to the end!
Can you get your money back or are you screwed?
Keep him from ever doing this again please!
Ya, I doubt very seriously this was an accident.
One thing is that hes obviously Lieing
U are clearly in the right here!
So far I have received a refund for the extra month billed and I have another claim for the month he took my coaching info down early when I had paid for a full month of service still.
ReplyDeleteI felt this needed to be broadcast all over twitter and posted here, because we can't let crooks like this take our money and get away with it.
He tries to act like he didn't know we were being re-billed after cancellation. Yeah right!
You had what 20 coaches? 10 drop and you get payments for 20 still? Hrm, stay quite and leech the money knowing that we can't get a refund if we don't catch it within the 60 day requried refund period.
I have already helped some ex-coaches (@nossdeath, @prncesspwn) who were still being charged and princess didn't even know until she went back through her statements after my tweets raising the red flag.
He knew she was charged still, just like he knew he never sent in a cancel request for me. He was just hoping we wouldn't notice.
Stealing from teenagers and poor college kids? C'mon you friggin slimeball Markco!
And like I said I had vested interests in continued payments because I referred some of these coaches, but unlike the money grubbing slimeball, I have values and ripping people off isn't my cup of tea.
I am a big shit head, I am as fake as they come. That glamour shot you took off my twitter account is the one I look at while I jack off. I grease up and say to it "you cocked eyed gold guru you are the best ever."
ReplyDeleteNow my lemmings will attack you!!
Could you please make this all public!
ReplyDeleteOr at least get everyone to reweet this.
Losers like him should be stopped!
Do u think we are going to stand for this Marko?
Stupid Ass Scammers piss me off!
After this Markco is screwed!
Really?
Everyone Knows Markco did this.
Tell the World Cold!
Are you going to report him to BBB make him
Regret ever blogging!
Definatly not ever going to JMTC again.
A wise man once said that a liar sees lies in everyone else. I think that mr polo here did nothing wrong. He may be forgetful at times but he doesn't try to screw with anyone.
ReplyDeleteI remember that he gave you a lot of traffic and help when you first started out, this is shameful.
Could someone please put a stop to this shit
ReplyDeleteOr at least get clickbank to say something
Losers like Markco are just doing to
Do whatever the hell they want to us until we
Take the time to fight back!
Outright stealing from people is wrong,
U can't do this sort of thing Markco. The
Crazy thing is that this is not going to
Have any effect on his followers because
Every single one of them just blindly follow his
Stupid ass!
Beware Markco this is the last time this
Outright stealing bullshit is going to happen,
You're not going to get away with this bullshit!
Stealing Is WRONG Markco!
Hey cold, read the first letters of the anons!
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteOooh! Drama! ;-)
ReplyDeleteI remember reading his first post really early this morning. I don't bother with twitter so I guess I missed some stuff, though I thought his first post this morning was good. Not sure why he changed it since, but he still comes off sounding genuine and apologetic. Either way you are definitely in the right for a refund. I hope you get it! Is kind of sad to see such bad blood between you guys.
Everyone needs to learn to read between the lines. There is definatly something funky going on with this whole thing. Seriously things aren't what they appear. I mean look at these comments for god sakes!
ReplyDeleteBeen wondering for a while while JMTC stopped linking your site. Clear now. Sadly Marko had a great idea on the gold blogging and expanding it into a business but the JMTC site has aimed at a reader that is definitely not me. This type of issue just isnt good for him. On one hand I am not surprised as morals always come into play. Good business sense would say refund the money, the customer is right. Too many times negative publicity hurts you in the long run.
ReplyDeleteI hate editing content but I would remove the abusive anon posters. Sadly it looks childish and really does reflect on Marko even if he didnt do the anon posts.
Language warning to the original poster, and to subsequent commentators.
ReplyDeletePlease consider Hanlon's Razor.
My advice (whether wanted or not) is to stick to the facts as dispassionately as you can.
Stating whether or not you had (or are trying to solve) a grievance, and the technicalities of how you resolved it is useful. Name calling and use of emotionally charged terms and posts are not.
This applies equally to both camps.
Amg, He stole $10 from you? What an ass! Not a whole $10. You must be SO upset.
ReplyDeleteCold, I've been a follower for a while now, and you're an honest dude. But I think you had a falling out with Marcko for whatever reason, and when getting your money back was a pain in the ass, you started pointing fingers. This really seems like a misunderstanding caused by clickbank being tricky to work with. Scamming 10 coaches, many of whom run prominent blogs in the wow goldmaking community, for $10/month apiece hardly seems worth the bad press. And you got your money back, right?
ReplyDeleteI know this was wrong on all kinds of levels, but after parsing the e-mails, blog posts, and Tweets from both sides, I think you both come out looking like very immature individuals for your age.
ReplyDeleteName-calling and threats are reserved for kids. You could've resolved your own issues by putting in cancellation requests and attaching your e-mails to Markco as proof. This article would've still made sense as a warning of sorts, but it would've done without the vitriol. You could've even put out a tweet asking for others in your situation to respond so you could all report him to the BBB together if he wasn't cooperating and fixing the unsubscribe process.
On Markco's end, he could've been more helpful and communicative about the situation. He might be lying, he might not. He should have a clearer and more streamlined process of a) cancelling and b) confirming said cancellations. That onus is on him and the vendors that process his subscriptions.
Despite all that's went down, you both came out looking pretty bad in the end. I can't say I'm impressed with either of you after this. You both still have valuable gold tips, and I can respect that. But I really can't respect how you both treated each other.
Can't believe markco did such a thing
ReplyDeleteOnly you have the guts to bring this
Loser down!
Don't give up!
Let everyone know what
Is going on here. I
Know that people are going to be
Especially angry when they
See what Markco has done
Can you report him for
Only $10? oh well who
Cares, its justice!
Kill the beast!
over $40 bucks?!?! really.. relax,, work things out,
ReplyDeleteReally? This is so stupid, on so many levels.
ReplyDeleteomg I love everything about this whole story. Markco screws up, Cold explodes, Markco gives the reefund, Cold f'ing goes to the BBB and tries to blacklist Markoc. Good god this is hillarious and stupid at the same time.
ReplyDeleteI am detecting there is more to this story than meets the eye.
ReplyDeleteWhy are you banned from JMTC? There's history here which you, as well, are not explaining which in turn may lead some to believe that you are not as innocent as you are claiming to be.
I will believe your own story more if I hear the other 3 "coaches" have had the same recurring difficulty you have had.
OH and for the record, am neutral here. Both JMTC and Cold's blog/resources have been pumping out lame crap for quite a while now.
You know something, I kind of like how Markco handled this. He had an idiot shouting at him and not listening, yet he kept his head above water. I dno't see him throwing any mud back at cold, besides publishing the emails, whihc was probably the right thing to do too.
ReplyDeleteGood luck Cold! At least you still give helpful tips on your site! Keep up the good work, as certain sites (cough, cough) are simply pathetic now and haven't given good money making tips in a long time, only advertisements. We need more bloggers like you in this niche.
ReplyDeleteWhat a theif! Talk about pissing away your reputation. I admire you, Cold, for fighting back! It's a shame Mageshadow went to jmtc. I actually like his posts.
ReplyDeleteAre you really crying over 10 bucks?
ReplyDeleteCold, as I already said on Twitter, I think you handled this situation very poorly. I just wanted to explain why.
ReplyDeleteShit happens in life, your blog got caught with Cookie Stuffing evidence on it but you said it was a mistake. Everyone let it slide and no one made any insane blog posts about it or started shouting out that you were a scammer all over the internet.
Marcko was under the impression that he WAS actually cancelling the coaching program subscriptions, but for some reason it wasn't.
As soon as he saw there was actually a problem he made an honest post about it, admitting the problem, offering help and refunds.
You did the same thing with your blog, made a post about it, apologized, etc but you are still running around spewing disgusting comments at Marcko, where as he just let your site problem go.
No offense, but it seems where ever you go there is drama. You are the only one who has caused drama on The Consortium Forums - ever. Your blog gets caught up in shifty adds that try to cookie stuff people and now this.
It's really bad and unprofessional, and in the end you are just going to become a Gevlon.
Let's see if you also one of those people who only approve positive posts on their blog, you scared of what I have to say? Scared it might be true? Prove it.
Not the first Spat markco had, anyone remeber the Gevlon Markco Spat, Markco seems to rub people up the wrong way alot, Take a look at linky here funny stuff
ReplyDeletehttp://bobturkey.wordpress.com/2009/11/18/blog-smack-down-gevlon-vs-marko/
And Read the email markco sent to gevlon then watch him try to squirm his way out of it Here >>>>
http://greedygoblin.blogspot.com/2009/11/no-means-no.html
So um... who are these coaches? I don't see them chiming in here, I know I would be if I were one of them!
ReplyDeleteLooks like a concocted story for publicity and there is obviously bad blood between you two.
Well this site is going off my google reader forever.
People are saying "markco came bad in the end" but how? What has he done in this whole fiasco? We're only seeing cold's side of the story. I think an unhappy customer just wanted drama, which is completely stupid.
ReplyDeleteName the coaches or else you're full of shit.
ReplyDeleteThe 4 coaches that contacted me (or posted to twitter) and had similar issues:
ReplyDeleteZoxy
Shamaneai
Princess (Markco already mentioned her)
Nossdeath (talon)
Theres the 4. I'll post the proof with screenshots after I get home from work, since you all think I'm making this up.
ReplyDeleteAlready proved his lies in the post, tonight I will prove he is still lieing about me being the only one (just to cover his ass).
He's a real crook.
I don't get it, are you proud of this? I don't think you realize how much respect you are losing by being so negative, let alone towards this particular person.
ReplyDeleteAs I understand it, you have on multiple occasions praised markco for sending traffic to your site and you even defended his blogging carnivals in the past.
What I want to know is how much money markco has MADE you. I know that's not a reason to like or defend someone, but I find it very odd that the moment he stops linking to you this happens. It feels a little convenient, don't you agree? It seems to me like you no longer feel that markco is going to help you, so you toss him under the buss in a bid for some extra press.
I know that you'll probably ban this comment because it asks the tough questions, but it's your conscience.
Nice to see only select comments getting thru... also with that being said... Prncess (no "i") and Nossdeath and yourself have been given full refunds... I don't see the need to drag this out....
ReplyDeleteHere's one. More when i get off work
ReplyDeletehttp://3.bp.blogspot.com/-RdQKGhYWLeA/TcPyKJabg3I/AAAAAAAAAP0/xz2G1lQVBsA/s320/scam.bmp
I've been removed for over 2 months now, which has had no effect on my traffic.
ReplyDeleteThis sin't a knee-jerk reaction to removing my link bud
I'm curious to see what happens when one or all of these coaches comes out and says that you are full of shit.
ReplyDeleteI find it strange that it had no effect on your traffic, seeing how much you praised markco in the past. Regardless, the way you've posted is definitely a knee-jerk reaction, and doing it in this way looks super shady. Perhaps it is because so many blogs on his blog roll also link to you that your traffic remained the same?
ReplyDeleteThis was planned for quite a while it looks like, especially since you took the time to contact coaches, talk to this clickbank company and the pa bbb. Considering the fact that mark found out about this like yesterday and still managed to fix the situation shows that all you had to do was contact him to resolve the issue.
Considering the fact that most of your posts are pretty short, I find it strange that this one is like 20 times your normal posting size. This looks like a surgical strike for traffic and nothing more. Now that so many people are calling you out, you will waste even more of our time trying to prove your innocence.
didnt seem like zoxy was that upset just saying... and if this gets thru and im sure it wont....we have said he is full of shit he just wont post it cuz it makes him look bad
ReplyDeleteAre you like this when you return a sweater to macy's too?
ReplyDeleteI just looked at your stat meter, it looks like in February you stopped growing for a bit and took a hit of a few thousand readers. It appears that you were affected by him no longer linking to you after all.
ReplyDeleteYou were like doubling in size before that happened too, seems awfully strange to me! I think that any first grader could see that this hurt your site big time.
Nothing to see here folks. Just an over exaggerated post that only contains one part of the story.
ReplyDeleteEveryone got their refunds back by the way, the measly $40 or so.
For those that want to know another side of the story, from a coach that isn't in this picture:
ReplyDeleteIn my personal opinion, this is all a waste of time. Whether it's for press (views), whether it's for a chip on someones shoulder, whether it's for the actual $$ invested, it's still basically a frustrated customer that invested money into advertising (thats basically what markco was doing with it- advertising for the 10$ a month) and it didn't work out for him.
Now I get along with Cold and Markco. They are both about money with their blogging. Markco has done very well (and publicly states that) with JMTC and it's many programs. Cold has publicly admitted he puts ads on his page for money (see the ught oh moment with the cookie a short while back- which I am sure cold is innocent there- just wanted to make a few bucks). Do I hate or dislike either of them for that? Nah. To each their own.
As for the coaching program, I was a week late getting into it back around January'ish. I have been very successful with it, around 30 coachings in total. It worked out so well for me that I put my coachings into a guide format because I didn't have enough time to schedule everyone in, and that has been successful as well.
Markco started a great program. Over the first few months, I had a handful of referrals from his coaching site. The others came from promoting myself on my blog. In the last two months, out of 16 coachings, none were from JMTC. So what to do? I cancelled my sub with him as the "advertising" wasn't proving traffic my way. It was easy. One click on my original email from clickbank, filled in my email, the last four of my CC I used, and my order number, and within two minutes, I was cancelled. No big "scam" going on, not one issue. Shit, I didn't even have to tell Markco. No email to him, nothing. Quick clicks, cancelled.
On occasion, I talk with both Markco and Cold. I would consider them both my buds. Those that know me know that I am black and white. No grey areas. If I am pissed, I tell you. Not behind your back. To your face. Out in the open. If you talk shit to me one on one, thats how it stays. If you talk shit in public, thats what I do too. Call it what you want, call it childish or not, its how I do things.
Markco,
You tried. The coaching program prevailed for some, not so much for others. It happens. Dust off and move on. I don't feel you were in the wrong one bit here, in fact, I think for most involved with the coaching program, you helped them out getting noticed. If there is a change to the current setup as more of a billboard, then I would sign up again. Until then, I am unsubscribed.
Cold,
Contacting the BBB? What the fuck? Over a few dollars? Jeezus. You have been blasting Markco and JMTC for months now. If like mentioned above you are going for a gevlon vs. markco war, just admit it. If fourty fucking dollars matters that much to you (or whatever amount it was) then stop fucking blogging and get a part time job already. As I said above, it took me two minutes to cancel my sub. Not emails back and forth, clickbank time, BBB complaints, nothing. It was that easy.
Since I will not click on this page again, if anyone has anything to say about my comment, please email me, skype me, or twitter me as I am not coming back to this post. Get back to goldmaking posts or you have lost a reader my brother.
@Alto
ReplyDeletemore gold post coming...this is the only slot I will waste on this issue. Just think others needed informed, so it doesn't happen to them.
I unsubbed early, and all i did was contact him like he said in his audio and on his site. He said nothing about cancelling myself.
Then he told me he took care of it, which he hadn't.
thats my main issue.
$40? well money if money friend. And $40 is a lot when your broke.
and for the record I only get $20 back, since he didn't do it on time as requested I can't get the refund that's outside their 60 day window.
ReplyDeletePS: Zoxy's coming clean on twitter about the same issue in case you doubters need more proof.
Since my name was brought into this, I feel I should make an appearance and explain things from my point of view. I got into the coaching program on the day of release on the 4th of February. I had not made any sales, and 2 days b4 my technical 60 days was up, to cancel my subscription, in order to get my money back, as per his 60 day money back guarantee.
ReplyDeleteMarkco informed me that I needed to cancel my subscription with clickbank myself, which is fine. I thought I had canceled it, but I in fact didn't.
I prolly never would have had noticed had I not seen more drama on Twitter, and checked Colds past tweets throughout the morning. After reading Cold's tweets,I checked my bank account to see if I was charged as well, which I was, and I sent Cold an email asking what he was doing to get the refund, and he gave me a list of things he was doing in order to move things along, which is the same list above in his post.
I began getting in contact with my bank finding out how I can cancel the subscription on that end, and started looking at Clickbank to figure out what I needed to do to get refunded. I started the emails with Cold around 4pm, and the conversation continued on till 7ish. Around that time I was in a skype call with Adam(dollada06) and Xander, talking about this situation. Cold got into the skype call as well, then Markco got on skype so we ended the call with Cold, and got into a call with Markco.
I explained what was going on to Markco, and he apologized a million times, and began helping me find the proper links in order to be able to get my refund. Markco was incredibly understanding my reason for being mad about the situation, and has continued to be in contact with me on skype making sure I am doing everything right in order to get my refund that I deserve.
I was informed of a couple people who also had the same problem as Cold and I, so I helped him try and get in contact with the others, and from my understanding he was sending email out to all the coaches he knew of, and possibly all coaches with a proper link in order to make sure everyone knew how to cancel the subscription and get the refunds necessary.
In my opinion, everyone has a right to be mad about the situation, but I think it depends how you handle the situation, that determines the outcome. Cold has said several times in the past 2 days, that he alrdy got his money back, and yet he is still causing a scene.
There comes a point where you have to take a step back and reevaluate your actions. When you have your money back, there should be a chance to inform, but demeaning another person, shows your true immaturity.
Prncesspwn
I would hardly call Zoxy's tweets "coming clean". He's hardly ranting about it or spitting the dummy.
ReplyDeleteThe more I hear and read, from all angles, it looks like someone has thrown his rattle out of the pram.
Congratulations on page hits/ numbers etc after this post.
I love the people that are belittling the amount of money that was essentially stolen due to miscommunications/fabrications. I guarantee you each and every one of them would raise holy Hell if ANY other company tried to do the same thing to them. (Say, if Blizzard double charged them for their accounts for one month?) There'd be no 'try to work it out' or sarcasm over 'just $15'. You did the right thing in airing your grievance and some of us who read (maybe not always commenting) over a span of blogs know that this is NOT the first time Markco has been caught behaving VERY questionably. Only this time it involves the actual loss of money for people, which makes it much more serious from a business standpoint.
ReplyDeleteNO ONE should be immune to reports to the BBB for questionable business practices unless they can really prove that "Oops, I'm sorry, I slipped" - and if that had been the case, I think this wouldn't have gone this far. Instead Markco replied like he has in the past with "Oh, now you are insulting me?" The hell, man. Just say you did or didn't do what you'd said you'd done and fix the problem. You don't insult your customers!
Just because someone has HELPED you doesn't give them the right to steal anything from you. Not ANYTHING.
When did making gold in WoW become so cliquey with more drama than shakespeare? it's a fucking game you drama queens. 10 bucks..really? Jesus.
ReplyDelete@princess, Sham, Zoxy
ReplyDeleteThanks for input. All the nay sayers have shut up now since its obvious that others had similar issues too.
Thanks for not running and hiding like most. Yeah I could be more diplomatic, but why should I? Beleive me, I toned this post down BIG TIME. Liar (proof provided) is an accurate term.
Snake, we all know he's a snake. Captain Outsource? Yeah harsh I know, lol. But hell he doesnt't write on JMTC, he doesn't update his guide anymore, he stop podcasting. All he does it collect the money now and it's not always even legit.
I truly believe he knew the whole time (he was collecting the payments each month after all) and never would have contacted any of the people we helped out without me calling him out.
So take off the rose colored glasses and see the situation for what it really is.
Glad I could help people get their money back.
PS: as far as those traffic comments go, sitemeters stats are inaacurate. Going off of my Google tracker, I show a very slight dip of readers in february with an explosion in March and following months. So ok maybe I lost traffic from hsi site for a week, but since properly dominating all the other goldbloggers with my proper SEO, I now have referrals from search engines every day over 4x what JMTC was bringing me. And when looking at the google analytics, JMTC readers were some of the worse (
based on length of stay, bounce rates, multi-page views) when comparing from other sites.
No blogger needs JMTC if they can use proper SEO
Fundamental Attribution Error.
ReplyDeleteI will agree with Sinshroud, this was handled very poorly. There was no need to bring this up in public. The name-calling and mud-slinging is unnecessary, Cold. Based on my own experience with the BBB, you can go ahead and make a claim, but it won't amount to anything. Mistakes happen. It was brought to his attention, and he acted to resolve it. End of story.
Cold, your blog here might be growing, but at what cost? Do you not care at all whether people are here because they actually respect you and your opinions or just see you as a cheap thrill? Surely you respect yourself more than that, don't you?
Look at the comments on this post - there are plenty of them, but can you honestly say that this is the type of image you want your blog to portray? I would think that your immaturity has probably helped Marcko more than it has hindered him in this situation. Something to think about.
My suggestion. Your next blog post should be an apology. To your readers. If not, I am truly concerned about the future of this blog.
Best of Luck
Wasn't it the Greedy Goblin who exposed him last time? I'm glad someone did it again, I lost respect for Markco a long time ago. Just another internet snake oil salesman with a huge ego.
ReplyDeleteI always tell people this: never, ever pay real money for a WoW guide.
$10 for the privilege of advertising your services as a coach? wow that's a ripoff and pure profit.
ReplyDeleteAfter the whole Gevlon incident, bribing other bloggers to sell his gold guide, it shouldn't come as a surprise. Macro is one of the greediest folks I have ever met. Another quality lockheed Martin employee. Using company money and tax payer funds to write blog posts about wow gold. Scum.
@Kathroman
ReplyDeleteObviously people come to my site becasue I provide top quality and often unique gold making posts or at least that's why the come back.
If someone is so far up Markco ass that they can't see the outright lies I have spelled out here and proven in plain English, then do I care if they are on my site at all?
No. They can go back to JMTC with the rest of the flock of sheep and continue to buy into Markco and all of his lies, scames, hustles, bribes, and other bullshit.
This punk is on vacation right now with all of your money we have given him.
@Kitchen Sink? Markco hasn't made me a damn dime. Really? I've earned any money I have made all on my own.
Do you really think Markco set up an affiliate program to help other people make money?!?!
When you set up an affiliate program, it's all about getting people to sell your products so YOU make money from them doing all the work (outside of product creation and pitch pages).
You really need to rethink this
ReplyDeleteRead all of the comments that you made
Don't you think this is out of control
Understand me when I say WOW!!
Man I know you are more mature than this
But then again I could be wrong
I have created click aml products in the past. Looking at markco's guide it probably cost him close to 6,000 for the while thing. That's money you didn't have to pay to sell it. Also, you thanked markco on twitter for your first check online. You do realize that he pays a generous 60% of his earnings to affiliates? He also has a very well done affiliate newsletter which I read just to see his tips as I do not sell his guide personally but considered it in the past.
ReplyDeleteYou are full of crap in this post, as a clickbank vendor I sympasize with makco's frustrations with their handling of your refund. He probably did send it in and they screwed it up.
Last Anon,
ReplyDeleteYeah all looks real good up front, but you ever heard of "Bait n Switch"?
@Cold this is not the last anon but why do you persist to think everyone in the world is out to get you...YOU had a problem with your adsense and you made it seem like they were trying to steal you money... I just confused here...please fill me in...IF you post this...Doubt it
ReplyDelete@Cold... thats exactly it. Markco has done this before, he'll do it again. All he cares about is the almighty dollar.
ReplyDeleteI've always said folks selling "gold guides" are no better than the gold farmers themselves. As you can see from Markco, he's no better than the farmers.
This stuff is all so god damn stupid. There is a right and wrong way to handle this crap. Markco isn't out vacationing with anyones money. For Fock sakes I mean he's openly admitted that it was a total screw up on his part. He doesn't play wow anymore so if hes not following the JMTC stuff and has the assumption that when he sends in cancelation they go through I could see how this can happen.
ReplyDeleteScreaming and hollering isn't going to do anyone any good.
Sorry Cold, I've been friendly with you through all of this and I still have nothing against you as a person but on a blogger to blogger level this is something I can't sit and stay impartial to. I have to say I think you are 100% going about this the wrong way.
@Cold... thats exactly it. Markco has done this before, he'll do it again. All he cares about is the almighty dollar.
ReplyDeleteI've always said folks selling "gold guides" are no better than the gold farmers themselves. As you can see from Markco, he's no better than the farmers.
WTF? So your saying Cold is just as bad then right? Cause he sells a Fortune Card Guide.
@Anon Re: adsense
ReplyDeleteMy GF made a brand new blog on cooking which I guest posted at (aliviascornerkitchen.blogspot.com).
She used to work with me where I currently still work.
I told some of my co-workers (her ex-co-workers/buddies) about her new site on cooking since they are also cooks and talk about cooking at work.
My co-workers were all reading her site from work (we all have computer w internet access). They were clicking on adds I guess.
I got accused my Adsense of clicking my own ads.
Apparently we all have the same IP at work and it would appear that way.
They denied my claim.
And cut me off with no reason. That scenario is what I came up with trying to figure out how it could have been mistaken that I was clicking my owns ads.
Anyways you can't get ahold of them. There is no phone number. I called the main office at Google and there is "No telephone access to that department." So you can't tell your story to anyone live, you have to send it in email. Problem is that first denial email says "we will not be answering you about this in further emails" and your email is blacklisted basically. Setting you up to Fail if you try to appeal.
Apparently the only other way to get back in is to open a new account under a business name / business account with the ability to cash checks out to the business name, which will be printed on the checks.
Stupid System set up to disqaulify you. They obviously don't want to hear my side of the story.
Don't ever log into your blog in a public location like a library or a school where multiple users have internet access.
Adsense will track it as you clicking your own adds since the computers will all be tracked as you since you accessed your account at that IP location.
sucks that it came to this. I respect you cold and from how I imagine you it must have pushed you pretty far. :(
ReplyDeleteI stopped reading JMTC a while ago already because I didn't like Markco or Mageshadow. I've now added a couple more names to the list of blogs I won't visit anymore. It's embarrassing to see some of the bloggers behaving like little children.
ReplyDeleteI will continue to read your site, Cold, because I respect the fact that you don't have your head up Markco's ass. Let the kids have their playground fight.
I've been trying to cancel his guide for a while myself. Constant runaround. Thank you for this post for easily explaining the avenues.
ReplyDeleteTo anyone who thought about purchasing his "guide" it's merely slimmed down snippits from other blogs. All the free content I've read elsewhere has helped way more.
Do NOT give this "character" money.
I have read the post/comments and I am really disappointed in Markco... I thought that he was a noble goblin that wanted to help people, I suppose I was wrong. I am currently in the process of canceling my coaching subscription and will give an update to whether or not is goes smoothly.
ReplyDeleteP.S. I don't think you are being imature or anything Cold, you are just trying to warn people about Markco and his money grabbing ways.
I'm posting this on the post you had on this subject. The comment below was already posted on JMTC when he just jumped up and down on your MFCs and the subject above. (although he has to approve them so it may be deleted).
ReplyDeleteIf you're smart, you'll let this stupid feud go... if you're not, you and JMTC will both lose alot of readers... starting with me.
Honestly, will the two of you just get a room and be done with it. I don't care if you kick or kiss each other but this side show gets old for your readers. I for one come to BOTH of your sites to read gold tips, not for some childish tirade by either of you.
So both of you grow up and go about your own ways without slamming the other or I guarantee that both of you will lose THIS reader (and probably many others).
Enough said??
Cold, just to let you know... JMTC had the cohones to post my comments and hopefully will have enough brains to drop the drama. I'm hoping you have enough brains to do the same.
ReplyDeleteBTW - I don't know about the cookie stuffing that he referred to in his post, but I can tell you that on more than one occassion I almost sent you a nasty-gram which would have included that I don't like having your website self spawn 2-3 windows when I tried to close the browser it was in! It happened on several occassions while I was at work over a week or so span and the only reason I never sent that nasty gram was that I was going to test it at home to see if it was just this brower or setup at work... and never got around to it.
So today the snake makes a post about me filled with 80% lies. Funny stuff really. It's not worth getting into it again.
ReplyDeleteI know what's true and what isn't and so do my great readers and the Auction House Junkies listeners. Hell on the podcast I talked about the mispricing of the guide and the 3 lucky folks that got it for $1 (due to $10 off instead of 10% off - lol).
He's just kicking and screaming from me calling him out from this post and complaining about Mageshadow stealing post ideas from this site, since their content is weak and lacking in quality.
@Matt M
ReplyDeleteNothing I have done is causing extra pages to open when leaving my site. If you have that issue, it's yours alone because I have not added anything to cause that to happed.
Cookie stuffing?
Never done that. Hell, when he accused me of that I had to look it up to see what it even meant. Still have no clue how to even do that.
I mean really, cmon? If I am so good at coding that I know how to set up cookie stuffing, then you'd think my site design would be a bit better than it is. Get real. Markco got his account drained himself and it had nothing to do with me or my site.
Just because they have a pic of a little white box next to a link means nothing, I didn't close the code properly when I copied it from Amazon, so there was a little white box.
I fixed the code and the box went away. that has nothnig to do with this crap he's accusing me of. He's just looking for something to write about because it's obvious that Mage has no clue.
The False Cookie Stuffing claim that Sinshroud and Markco dreamed up can be found here and is explained in the post edit.
ReplyDeleteDebunking another one of Markco's Lies.